APMA question

[easy goer]

Went through the APMA process and received my license to operate an 8" suction dredge. A claim holder near me is going through the process and he was told he needed Section 404 Wetlands Permit, I was told that because I was under 5 acres disturbance this was not necessary. Hurdle after hurdle!

Anyone have any experience with this? How huge a pain in the ass is this? Of course the Corp of Engineers runs some whacked version of Adobe that doesn't work, so I cant even download or open the form to look at it.

Thanks

Easygoer

[Geowizard]

Easy,


Don't go away! There's more!

- Geowizard

[Geowizard]

You are the "Boss";


Don't go away! There's more!

- Geowizard

[Jim_Alaska]

The clean water act is a joke and should be resisted at every turn. It proposes to mitigate actions that "might" degrade water for what they call "beneficial uses". To the EPA and environmentalists, "beneficial uses" are swimming and fishing. And ironically you can buy a permit to pollute (EPA 404). In other words, it's OK to pollute if you pay.

Another inconsistency they promote is that 404 is paramount for protecting fish. Here again, you can buy a permit to kill fish (fishing license) But you can't mine in the water because it "might" kill fish; even though EPA's own studies have determined that suction dredge mining is "De-Minimus" or " of minimal consequence."

Another often purposely overlooked fact is that Congress has proclaimed Mining as the best and most important use of water, even above agriculture.

Be careful what you apply for, resist agency's efforts to regulate mining through their regulations, rather than Mining Law.

[chickenminer]

Easy goer,
The COE requires a permit for placer mining. Acreage determines Which type of permit, under 5 acres is usually covered under the General Permit. Over 5 needs an Individual permit.

Unless your dredging plan is in a tidal area or influenced by tide I do not believe you are required to obtain a COE permit.

When the COE regulatory compliance people visit the Fortymile they are only interested in visiting the placer miners. They do not bother the suction dredgers.

[easy goer]

Dick,

Not sure how I fit under this rule either, unless everything other than hard rock mining is placer mining I don't get it. I looked at the 3 forms that are required to be filled out and it seems like they are all directed at heavy equipment type operations.
The COE also says that they will contact APMA holders if they believe they will be impacted.

My out is "less than 5 acres disturbed". 43,560 square feet per acre, 4 feet of overburden, 6453 cubic yards of overburden, 10 yards per hour, 645 hours, 12 hours a day, for 54 days straight and that's one acre.

One acre down and four to go.

Some may say my production schedule is a little ambitious. Heavy sarcasm!!

Appreciate everyone's help here.

Easygoer

[Joe S (AK)]

Easygoer,

It might be that your buddy somehow over requested permitting (easy to do with an AMPA application) and in doing that somehow just stepped in it. Maybe that swamp (OOPS I guess I should have said "Wet Lands") designation is what screwed things into a big old knot. Are you two using about the same scale of motorized equipment or the same type - dredge, shaker plant or maybe trommel? It just sounds as though his "stuff" raised hackles and yours didn't.

Tough to tell with desk bound bureaucrats.

Joe

[easy goer]

Joe,

Yes we are using similar size equipment, the fact that we want to use larger than a 6" dredge is what started this ball rolling. I believe his application was handled by someone different and he got a different outcome. The way it reads though it doesn't seem one has anything to do with the other. You can get an APMA license without going to the COE and getting this permit. You wouldn't be legal according to the COE but Alaska wouldn't say anything about it.

Where I am from you can get a liquor license from the parish( county) which gets you absolutely nothing! You have to have one from the state to buy or sell liquor from the wholesaler. This is job creation, two agencies, twice the people.

The further you get into this mining game the more I understand why the person I bought the claims from went with the easier to ask forgiveness than permission!

Thanks for all your help!

Easygoer

[chickenminer]

No, suction dredging is handled different than mechanized placer mining. I don't believe the acreage rule even applies. Same with NPDES, separate GP for suction dredging.
I would not fret about a COE permit. If the State gave you a permit through the APMA process and you have the NPDES GP you should be good to go.
You're not in an area with a special designation for some reason or another, are you ?

[Joe S (AK)]

Wouldn't the quantity of acreage specifically refer to surface disturbance?

Since dredging creates little to no surface disturbance (everything is done sub-surface) that 5+- acre criteria seems to not be applicable, at least to a logical, common sense viewpoint. Of course bureaucrats have different ways of thinking so maybe that is the root problem your neighbor is dealing with.

Did your neighbor somehow inaccurately describe his operation's "surface disturbance" in some way on his application and you, correctly, didn't? It seems that maybe he could have substituted actual working area (inside the streambed) for the total size of his claim. Big difference there to an office worker with no real experience in dredging.

Joe