Economy of scale:
In 2009, after getting washed off East beach at Nome the prior year, I arrived at McGrath, in the interior of Alaska. I was waiting for my baggage as all of the other incoming passengers. I was keen to watch the locals as they observed me with that "Oh no! Not another one of those!" looks.
The Hard rock part:
The take-way is to have the correct geologic setting that produces GOLD nuggets in a well defined small area.
GOLD mining today however works in the opposite direction - mining and processing thousands of tons of low-grade gold every day at an economy of scale that reaches an acceptable profitability.
Is there an economy of scale for a small miner and nugget GOLD?
Stick around and find out!
- Geowizard
Small scale hard rock mining and prospecting
Moderator: chickenminer
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PickaxeCA
- Prospector
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Re: Small scale hard rock mining and prospecting
"Is there an economy of scale for a small miner and nugget GOLD?"
I will be sticking around to find out : )
----
On my current hard rock gold claim, the previous owners had sampling difficulties due to a 'nugget effect'. Note that the nugget effect in my hometown is in relative terms, refering to +80 mesh gold that can screw up assay data by overstating ore grades over a large area.
The hard rock gold in my area is known for mediocre to decent grades in small pockets that pinch out quickly due to faulting and shearing. There is certainly gold in places, but the tonnage wasn't there for old timers to mill more than a few hundred tons at most claims in the area.
There aren't any operating gold mines in my hometown, but within a 3 hours drive there are many. I guess those large mine operators found the very large, low grade tonnage they were after.
As a hobbyist, I deliberately chase areas with a known 'nugget effect' where they lack tonnage, but have small, spotty pockets of high grade hard rock gold in quartz veins, wall rock, and even disseminated in the soil or mine dumps.
If your objective is just to find 'some' hard rock gold, it's an achieveable goal.
If you keep researching, reading, prospecting, and testing (crushing and panning rocks repeatedly), you will eventually find some specks of hard rock gold. And it's a great thrill when it happens!
Don't put any pressure on how many grams, ounces or dollars you pull out of the ground, just enjoy looking at your beautiful hard rock gold under a 10X loupe, and the pursuit will remain enjoyable!
The minute you try to make money from it is the moment it turns into a business. The mining of gold at the hobbyist scale is a horrible business model, in my opinion, but it's a terrific hobby.
On another note, placer seems easy when you cut your teeth on hard rock. There are way fewer dud pans on the creek : )
I will be sticking around to find out : )
----
On my current hard rock gold claim, the previous owners had sampling difficulties due to a 'nugget effect'. Note that the nugget effect in my hometown is in relative terms, refering to +80 mesh gold that can screw up assay data by overstating ore grades over a large area.
The hard rock gold in my area is known for mediocre to decent grades in small pockets that pinch out quickly due to faulting and shearing. There is certainly gold in places, but the tonnage wasn't there for old timers to mill more than a few hundred tons at most claims in the area.
There aren't any operating gold mines in my hometown, but within a 3 hours drive there are many. I guess those large mine operators found the very large, low grade tonnage they were after.
As a hobbyist, I deliberately chase areas with a known 'nugget effect' where they lack tonnage, but have small, spotty pockets of high grade hard rock gold in quartz veins, wall rock, and even disseminated in the soil or mine dumps.
If your objective is just to find 'some' hard rock gold, it's an achieveable goal.
If you keep researching, reading, prospecting, and testing (crushing and panning rocks repeatedly), you will eventually find some specks of hard rock gold. And it's a great thrill when it happens!
Don't put any pressure on how many grams, ounces or dollars you pull out of the ground, just enjoy looking at your beautiful hard rock gold under a 10X loupe, and the pursuit will remain enjoyable!
The minute you try to make money from it is the moment it turns into a business. The mining of gold at the hobbyist scale is a horrible business model, in my opinion, but it's a terrific hobby.
On another note, placer seems easy when you cut your teeth on hard rock. There are way fewer dud pans on the creek : )
Barely a weekend warrior. Hard rock + placer prospecting methods together = better information.
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chickenminer
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Re: Small scale hard rock mining and prospecting
Too funny!
I know quite a few guys on the commercial side that would have to admit the same thing !
_______________________________________________________________________________
C.R. "Dick" Hammond
Stonehouse Mining
Chicken, Alaska
C.R. "Dick" Hammond
Stonehouse Mining
Chicken, Alaska
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PickaxeCA
- Prospector
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Re: Small scale hard rock mining and prospecting
A few family member's on my mother's side are grain farmers in the Canadian Prairies. At least they know they will get a crop most years. There isn't a guarantee of even 1 cent with gold mining, whether hard rock or placer.
I can't think of a much more futile business model than mining, except at a large to very large scale. And even then, it's expensive to prospect, drill, and mine, plus no deposit lasts forever.
I can't think of a much more futile business model than mining, except at a large to very large scale. And even then, it's expensive to prospect, drill, and mine, plus no deposit lasts forever.
Barely a weekend warrior. Hard rock + placer prospecting methods together = better information.
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chickenminer
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Re: Small scale hard rock mining and prospecting
Several years ago I picked up this piece of float while stripping ground up on a high bench.
I never could find where it came from and it was sheer luck that I happened to see this piece.
I'm way more interested in placer deposits than pursuing hard rock but it was cool to find!
I never could find where it came from and it was sheer luck that I happened to see this piece.
I'm way more interested in placer deposits than pursuing hard rock but it was cool to find!
_______________________________________________________________________________
C.R. "Dick" Hammond
Stonehouse Mining
Chicken, Alaska
C.R. "Dick" Hammond
Stonehouse Mining
Chicken, Alaska
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PickaxeCA
- Prospector
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- Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2024 5:45 pm
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Re: Small scale hard rock mining and prospecting
@ChickenMiner - did you crush and pan it? Beautiful piece of ore.
Barely a weekend warrior. Hard rock + placer prospecting methods together = better information.
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chickenminer
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Re: Small scale hard rock mining and prospecting
No.... way cooler to me as a specimen. Might be the only sample I ever pick up!
_______________________________________________________________________________
C.R. "Dick" Hammond
Stonehouse Mining
Chicken, Alaska
C.R. "Dick" Hammond
Stonehouse Mining
Chicken, Alaska
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PickaxeCA
- Prospector
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2024 5:45 pm
- Location: Okanagan Region, BC, Canada
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Re: Small scale hard rock mining and prospecting
In January 2007, Dr. Robin Grayson published a study called: "Fine Gold Recovery - Alternatives to Mercury and Cyanide". In the paper, he examines a variety of technologies including sluices (e.g. PopAndSon), jigs, bowls, etc.
It's worth a read as it compliments the work of earlier researchers such as Clarkson, Poling and Hamilton, as well as others who have examined gravity concentration methods for recovering fine gold.
Here is a link to the study:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... e_of_study
Title: Fine Gold Recovery – Alternatives to Mercury and Cyanide
Author: Robin Grayson
Note: when the study was conducted in 2007, newer technologies such as the Gold Cube, Dream Mat, and Gold Hog matting did not yet exist. Under the right operating conditions for each matting system these newer technologies can produce excellent results for recovering fine placer gold, and I assume they would work well for gravity concentration of hard rock gold as well.
It's worth a read as it compliments the work of earlier researchers such as Clarkson, Poling and Hamilton, as well as others who have examined gravity concentration methods for recovering fine gold.
Here is a link to the study:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... e_of_study
Title: Fine Gold Recovery – Alternatives to Mercury and Cyanide
Author: Robin Grayson
Note: when the study was conducted in 2007, newer technologies such as the Gold Cube, Dream Mat, and Gold Hog matting did not yet exist. Under the right operating conditions for each matting system these newer technologies can produce excellent results for recovering fine placer gold, and I assume they would work well for gravity concentration of hard rock gold as well.
Barely a weekend warrior. Hard rock + placer prospecting methods together = better information.
-
Joe S (AK)
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Re: Small scale hard rock mining and prospecting
Robin Grayson - or SteppeGold as he was known here - is a "Blast from the Past" for us old timers who faithfully read and re-read all his postings.
He is a British born Geologist who (back a few years ago at least) lived with his family in Mongolia and worked in many different locations in many different countries as a well respected and sought after Geologist.
His epic string of posts in the previous rendition of The AGF was monumental and a great loss when Jim Foley was forced to change forum providers.
His perceptions and attitudes on the use of Mercury and Cyanide in Gold recovery were founded in the early roots of his career and were predicated on his experiences up until at least a few years ago in European and Asian mining practices, good or more to the point, bad. His extensive research into all types of Gold recovery equipment and most especially Gold Pans was a monumental effort which he presented in a manuscript (possibly now published). I read many of his "papers" and they would eventually leave me panting in the dust of "Highly technical terms. He would write for professional Geologists on one level while also relating to us Diggers.
His work here centered on Gold Mining in Asia and most especially the customs and techniques of mining in Mongolia. He taught me, and all those here, a lot on other types of hand mining in other cultures. I, for one, really miss his membership and participation here in our forum.
If anyone hears anything about SteppeGold's current activities please PM me so that I can track him down and invite him here again.
Joe
He is a British born Geologist who (back a few years ago at least) lived with his family in Mongolia and worked in many different locations in many different countries as a well respected and sought after Geologist.
His epic string of posts in the previous rendition of The AGF was monumental and a great loss when Jim Foley was forced to change forum providers.
His perceptions and attitudes on the use of Mercury and Cyanide in Gold recovery were founded in the early roots of his career and were predicated on his experiences up until at least a few years ago in European and Asian mining practices, good or more to the point, bad. His extensive research into all types of Gold recovery equipment and most especially Gold Pans was a monumental effort which he presented in a manuscript (possibly now published). I read many of his "papers" and they would eventually leave me panting in the dust of "Highly technical terms. He would write for professional Geologists on one level while also relating to us Diggers.
His work here centered on Gold Mining in Asia and most especially the customs and techniques of mining in Mongolia. He taught me, and all those here, a lot on other types of hand mining in other cultures. I, for one, really miss his membership and participation here in our forum.
If anyone hears anything about SteppeGold's current activities please PM me so that I can track him down and invite him here again.
Joe
Determination, Tempered in the Heat of Stubbornness,
Really Gets Things Done!
Really Gets Things Done!
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Geowizard
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Re: Small scale hard rock mining and prospecting
I found him on researchgate.com;
Robin Grayson profile:
Robin is a polymath with interests spanning: ECOLOGY: EIA & ESIA; herpetology (especially Triturus), freshwater invertebrates (cladocerans; Hydra, beetles etc.); pond ecology & pondscapes; urban ecology; urban forests, air quality; groundwater; soda lakes, permafrost, aufeis (naleds), urban heat islands; GEOLOGY: paleontology; paleoecology; deep geothermal; geology of Manchester and NW England; geology of Kabul Block and Hindu Kush; transpressive orogens, onshore oil/gas & fracking; alluvial gold; uranium, fluorspar; lapis lazuli; talc, steatite; jade; shungite, mercury; brick clays etc. ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: SME advisory services, business incubators, microenterprises, mono-cities, mineral rushes (gold, talc, jade, coal etc.); multiculturalism, urban regeneration; community politics.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robin-Grayson
DEFINING ECOLOGICAL IMPACT
Ecological impact refers to the impact a project may have on the ecology of a site and its surroundings. Many projects will have an impact in some way; therefore, it is important to identify this and discern whether they are considered to be positive or negative.
Impacts are defined as “actions resulting in changes to an ecological feature”. When considering ecological impacts, an ecology consultancy considers the habitats, species, and ecosystems which may be affected within the site and the ‘zone of influence’ of the project.
The zone of influence is the area around the site that may be affected by the proposed changes within the site. Impacts could include the removal or alteration of habitat, increased human presence on or around the site, or the introduction of artificial lighting within the site.
https://www.ecologybydesign.co.uk/ecolo ... lead-times
The UNECE Protocol on Strategic Environmental Assessment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTHKqx-C_C8
------------------------------
ESIA:
https://documents1.worldbank.org/curate ... C-KN14.pdf
------------------------------
Chapter 1: Profitable Placer Mining with Low Impacts - sample chapter
Chapter
Full-text available
Mar 2017
Robin Francis Grayson
Chapter One introduces the placer gold miner to Best Available Techniques (BAT) that maximises profits by minimising impacts which maximises efficiency. Unfortunately BAT is implicitly BATNEEC (BAT Not Exceeding Excessive Cost) without regard to the scale of mining or size of companies. The novel term BATTE is introduced (BAT Tailored for Entities)...
Abstract
Chapter One introduces the placer gold miner to Best Available Techniques (BAT) that maximises profits by minimising impacts which maximises efficiency. Unfortunately BAT is implicitly BATNEEC (BAT Not Exceeding Excessive Cost) without regard to the scale of mining or size of companies. The novel term BATTE is introduced (BAT Tailored for Entities). In this introductory chapter, the reader is confronted with daunting challenges which are not impossible, as later chapters will show: BAT - NEVER recover less than 90% of the gold. BAT - NEVER double-handle topsoil, overburden or pay gravel. BAT - ALWAYS type drilling results into EXCEL to find the area and depth of the Economic Envelope. BAT - LIMIT the mine's footprint to inside the excavation. BAT - MINIMISE the area being mined at any one time. BAT - NEVER store topsoil - re-spread it immediately after it is stripped. BAT - ALWAYS add some soil-forming material. BAT - ALWAYS create the final landform as a continuous operation. BAT - PROHIBIT mercury from the mine and processing. BAT - MINIMISE water usage. BAT - Recycle process water. BAT - ZERO effluent discharge. BAT - WILDLIFE GAIN as essential routine. BAT - PASTURE IMPROVEMENT whenever appropriate. BAT - DRIVE THE LOCAL ECONOMY by placer mining. BAT - STRENGTHEN THE NATIONAL ECONOMY by placer mining. BAT - ENHANCE the ecological value of wetlands. BAT - COMBAT excessive land-raising to ensure wetlands maintained. BAT - CREATE large volumes of soil-forming materials. BAT - AVOID dredging channels, or restore them with care. BAT - MAKE rehabilitation part of the daily routine. BAT - AVOID phased rehabilitation block-by-block. BAT - NEVER delay rehabilitation until after mining stops.
Stick around, there's more!
- Geowizard
Robin Grayson profile:
Robin is a polymath with interests spanning: ECOLOGY: EIA & ESIA; herpetology (especially Triturus), freshwater invertebrates (cladocerans; Hydra, beetles etc.); pond ecology & pondscapes; urban ecology; urban forests, air quality; groundwater; soda lakes, permafrost, aufeis (naleds), urban heat islands; GEOLOGY: paleontology; paleoecology; deep geothermal; geology of Manchester and NW England; geology of Kabul Block and Hindu Kush; transpressive orogens, onshore oil/gas & fracking; alluvial gold; uranium, fluorspar; lapis lazuli; talc, steatite; jade; shungite, mercury; brick clays etc. ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: SME advisory services, business incubators, microenterprises, mono-cities, mineral rushes (gold, talc, jade, coal etc.); multiculturalism, urban regeneration; community politics.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robin-Grayson
DEFINING ECOLOGICAL IMPACT
Ecological impact refers to the impact a project may have on the ecology of a site and its surroundings. Many projects will have an impact in some way; therefore, it is important to identify this and discern whether they are considered to be positive or negative.
Impacts are defined as “actions resulting in changes to an ecological feature”. When considering ecological impacts, an ecology consultancy considers the habitats, species, and ecosystems which may be affected within the site and the ‘zone of influence’ of the project.
The zone of influence is the area around the site that may be affected by the proposed changes within the site. Impacts could include the removal or alteration of habitat, increased human presence on or around the site, or the introduction of artificial lighting within the site.
https://www.ecologybydesign.co.uk/ecolo ... lead-times
The UNECE Protocol on Strategic Environmental Assessment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTHKqx-C_C8
------------------------------
ESIA:
https://documents1.worldbank.org/curate ... C-KN14.pdf
------------------------------
Chapter 1: Profitable Placer Mining with Low Impacts - sample chapter
Chapter
Full-text available
Mar 2017
Robin Francis Grayson
Chapter One introduces the placer gold miner to Best Available Techniques (BAT) that maximises profits by minimising impacts which maximises efficiency. Unfortunately BAT is implicitly BATNEEC (BAT Not Exceeding Excessive Cost) without regard to the scale of mining or size of companies. The novel term BATTE is introduced (BAT Tailored for Entities)...
Abstract
Chapter One introduces the placer gold miner to Best Available Techniques (BAT) that maximises profits by minimising impacts which maximises efficiency. Unfortunately BAT is implicitly BATNEEC (BAT Not Exceeding Excessive Cost) without regard to the scale of mining or size of companies. The novel term BATTE is introduced (BAT Tailored for Entities). In this introductory chapter, the reader is confronted with daunting challenges which are not impossible, as later chapters will show: BAT - NEVER recover less than 90% of the gold. BAT - NEVER double-handle topsoil, overburden or pay gravel. BAT - ALWAYS type drilling results into EXCEL to find the area and depth of the Economic Envelope. BAT - LIMIT the mine's footprint to inside the excavation. BAT - MINIMISE the area being mined at any one time. BAT - NEVER store topsoil - re-spread it immediately after it is stripped. BAT - ALWAYS add some soil-forming material. BAT - ALWAYS create the final landform as a continuous operation. BAT - PROHIBIT mercury from the mine and processing. BAT - MINIMISE water usage. BAT - Recycle process water. BAT - ZERO effluent discharge. BAT - WILDLIFE GAIN as essential routine. BAT - PASTURE IMPROVEMENT whenever appropriate. BAT - DRIVE THE LOCAL ECONOMY by placer mining. BAT - STRENGTHEN THE NATIONAL ECONOMY by placer mining. BAT - ENHANCE the ecological value of wetlands. BAT - COMBAT excessive land-raising to ensure wetlands maintained. BAT - CREATE large volumes of soil-forming materials. BAT - AVOID dredging channels, or restore them with care. BAT - MAKE rehabilitation part of the daily routine. BAT - AVOID phased rehabilitation block-by-block. BAT - NEVER delay rehabilitation until after mining stops.
Stick around, there's more!
- Geowizard